I interviewed Greg Kihn in 1995, and that interview formed the basis of this article. The piece appeared in the January 5, 1996 issue of Goldmine. The power pop issue. We'll pay tribute to the late, great Greg Kihn this Sunday night on This Is Rock 'n' Roll Radio.
GREG KIHN: Rekihnsidered
If anyone has ever embodied the idea of Everyman as pop star, it would have to be Greg Kihn. Kihn has lived every facet of the rock 'n' pop lifestyle, from struggling folk singer to up-and-coming new wave pop icon, from million-selling MTV star to a return to his folk roots on his most recent album, Mutiny.
Throughout these various incarnations, Kihn has apparently remained that rarest of rock entities, an unpretentious and charming nice guy. Even if we never get to know the people who make the records we buy, such qualities do make themselves heard in the grooves. Kihn's recording career has been characterized by a series of amiable, easygoing performances that have endeared him to an international network of pop fans.
Like many performers, Kihn became a music fan at an early age. As Kihn recalled for Goldmine, "My mom and dad, they danced, they went to ballroom dancing. And they would bring home 45s. My earliest recollection is my mom taking me to the record store, which was a real mom-and-pop record store in our neighborhood. And in those days you had a listening booth, and she would get up a handful of 45s, and she'd go in a listening booth, and she'd listen to buy some platters for her and my dad to dance to. You know, they did that kind of cha-cha stuff, the kind of stuff your mom and dad did," Kihn added with a laugh. “It wasn't like the hully gully.
"So they would buy things like 'La Di Da'," Kihn continued. "And I remember the first record that I wanted to buy, they were shocked because I was just as young as young could be. Somehow I heard 'Don't Let Go' by Roy Hamilton, and I thought it was so cool, and I made my mom buy the record and she really started wondering about me. But in those early days, they'd bring home all kinds of pop records, and that's how I started getting into music."
As Kihn grew a bit older, he found himself becoming enamored of the then-burgeoning folk music scene. "I had a cousin who was older than I was, a year or two older," said Kihn, "and he was into folk music. And he was kind of an intelligent guy, and it seemed like kind of an intellectual pursuit. You know, you had Joan Baez and Bob Dylan records. I started off with the Kingston Trio, but it didn't take long to get into the hardcore stuff like Dylan and [Dave] Van Ronk. And that's when I started learning how to play guitar, how to play the guitar."
Kihn's new affection for folk and nascent proficiency with a guitar inevitably led further. "I started off as a folk singer," said Kihn. "See, I got my first guitar when I was around 16. And at the time there was a singer-songwriter scene happening on the East Coast. This must be in the mid '60s. Dylan was God. And living in Baltimore, there were coffeehouses. And all the people like Eric Andersen and Dave Van Ronk and Pat Sky and Jim Kweskin and John Hammond, all these people would come to town and play. And when I started playing the guitar, that was the scene I was thrust into. I had a buddy [and] we would go down and see these people play.
“So when I started playing," Kihn went on, "I started writing songs right off the bat. I was in high school, and I was writing terrible introspective teenaged angst songs, you know, kind of semi-Eric Andersen-ish, you know? They were horrible," Kihn conceded with a laugh. "But I'd be playing on weekends and stuff at the various church coffeehouses and stuff that they had around Baltimore at the time. And you know, it was cool. I mean, right from the beginning I was writing songs and then playing the same songs live, along with all your other folk favorites."
Since Kihn would eventually become known as a pop-rocker, it's interesting to note that, unlike the vast majority of pop guys, he wasn't all that big a Beatles fan initially. "When the Beatles were on Ed Sullivan and I watched, and my life changed, yes," Kihn said. "But I was among a little clique of people in junior high school that was beyond the Beatles, we were into Dylan. And it was a different thing. So I really didn't get into the Beatles until--I'll tell you, in my heart, I didn't really get into the Beatles until Revolver. And at that point I realized what brilliant musicians they were. But up to that point it was just pop ditties. And I was more into ‘Don't Think Twice, It's Alright,’ or ‘Blowin’ in the Wind,’ or ‘Masters of War’."
At the age of 19, as Kihn was playing coffeehouses around the Washington, D.C. area, he and some friends decided to travel to Holland, ostensibly to join another friend's band in Amsterdam. "I sold everything I had," said Kihn, "took my guitar and went to Amsterdam and hung out, crashed on floors, played. I think we played one gig the whole time I was there. And we went in the studio once. The band, we were just too blacked out to do anything. But it was a wonderful experience. And I used to go out and play. There were coffeehouses where you could play and pass the hat. It was interesting. It was the kind of thing that I guess a young Bohemian is expected to do in this world."
Kihn eventually left Europe and returned to the coffeehouses of Baltimore, but not for long. California beckoned, and in 1971 Kinn relocated (initially to Los Angeles, ultimately to the Bay Area). "Actually the man that was responsible for that was Alan Mason," said Kihn. "He used to come and see me at coffeehouses in Baltimore when I was a teenager. He was in law school at the time. And he used to come and see me at, I believe the Crack Of Doom was the name of the coffeehouse. And later he contacted me, he was out in California working for A & M Records. And he called me and said, 'A friend of mine wants to meet you.' "
That friend was Matthew King Kaufman, soon to be co-founder of the nearly legendary indie label Beserkley. At the time, Kaufman was managing the band Earth Quake, and was looking to add more acts to his management roster. Kihn agreed to hook up with Kaufman ("We hit it off right away," said Kihn), and began looking for a record deal.
Alas, record labels weren't exactly fighting over the chance to sign any of Kaufman's clients. Earth Quake was already signed to A & M, but neither Kihn nor Jonathan Richman (whom Kihn credits Alan Mason with discovering) could get a foot in the door. And after the group's second A & M album in 1972, Earth Quake was likewise without a record contract.
With no major label willing to take these acts, Kaufman started Beserkley as a way to get the bands heard. "Well, you know, a lot of this was motivated by the fact that nobody was going to sign these bands," Kihn said with a laugh. "And Matt had just a shoestring budget. In fact, Joel Turtle, who was his partner in Beserkley, was a whiz at coming up with just a little bit of capital, just enough to go in. The same way, I'm sure, [filmmaker] Edward D. Wood made his budget stretch. You know, the old story that Matt won the money at the racetrack is not true. It was Joel Turtle who went out and somehow bamboozled some money out of somebody and we got enough money to go and make [Beserkley Chartbusters, the inaugural Beserkley LP]. 'Cause you know, when we made Chartbusters, I think we all thought, 'Well, this'll be great. We'll all get signed and it'll all be over.' But then suddenly Beserkley turned into a monster."
Beserkley Chartbusters Volume 1, released in 1975, included two Kihn performances, "Mood Mood Number" and "All the Right Reasons," alongside offerings by Earth Quake, Richmond, and the Rubinoos. "And that was the first time I had ever been in the studio," said Kihn. "We recorded that at the old CBS Studios on Folsom Street in San Francisco, a very famous room. At the time, they would let us go in there after hours, because Matt Kaufman had worked out some kind of a cheap-o deal. We went in there with Glenn Kolotkin engineering. They cut all of its stuff within a couple of days. All the bands would show up, you'd pack up your stuff, the next guy'd come in," he said, laughing. "It was interesting."
Around this time, Kihn also participated in the recording of a bona fide rock 'n' roll classic, contributing backing vocals to Jonathan Richman's "Roadrunner" in 1975. The experience was characteristic of what Kihn now looks back upon as the best part of his affiliation with Beserkley. "It was a magical place to be," Kihn recalled simply. "Although Matt Kaufman gets most of the credit, I think that a lot of credit is due to Alan Mason and Joel Turtle, because they're the guys that really made all that shit happen.
"I mean, Alan found Jonathan--what else can you say? Jonathan is one of the great finds of all time," Kihn added, laughing. "It's like finding Roy Orbison or something, you know? What are the odds of Sam Phillips finding all those guys right there in Memphis? We felt like we were like the Sam Phillipses of the '70s. It was a real kick. And you know, we weren't really trying to have hits. We were just trying to make cool records."
Meanwhile, former solo performer Kihn had put together a band with bassist Steve Wright and drummer Larry Lynch."Steve Wright was the first guy," Kihn recalled, "and he was the guy that was basically my partner in this. And Steve went out and found Larry Lynch, because Larry Lynch was his brother-in-law, and he just happened to be a damn great drummer, but he was his brother-in-law. This is the way great rock bands come together."
Kihn admitted that the band had actually formed out of a practical necessity. "You know, I was playing around and the guy at the Longbranch Saloon in Berkeley said, 'Hey, if you had a band, man, you could play every Sunday night.' And I just lied and said, 'Hey, I got a band and we're really good.' 'Cause I was doing folk and stuff at the time, singer-songwriter gigs. So in about two and a half weeks Steve and I put together a band that stayed together for 10 years. With his brother-in-law on drums! Now that's the way bands are put together: not because they all look good with the big hair, but because they're just related."
Wright and Lynch joined Kihn for his debut album, Greg Kihn, also released in 1975. Greg Kihn was very much a low-key affair, reflecting Kihn's folk background. Following its release, Khnn added Dave Carpender to the band as lead guitarist, noticeably toughening the group's sound.
That tougher sound was in plentiful evidence on Kihn's second album, 1977's Greg Kihn Again. This album, the first credited to the Greg Kihn Band, offered some of the bounce and pluck that had seemed missing from the debut record. This was evident on the group's confident and capable cover of Buddy Holly's "Love's Made a Fool of You" and on ace Kihn originals "Hurts So Bad" and "Madison Avenue."
But the Greg Kihn Again track that got the most attention was a pop-pumped cover of Bruce Springsteen's "For You." "I was one of the early Springsteen fans," said Kihn, "and I really liked the Asbury Park and E Street albums. And it blew my mind at the time, because I considered him to be as important a songwriter as Bob Dylan at that point in my life. And it blew my mind that there were no covers. At that time, the only cover that I could think of was 'Sandy' by the Hollies. 'Fire' had yet to be done by the Pointer Sisters.
'So I did it, thinking somebody's got to cover some of these songs, they're great! And we had a real Beau Brummels kind of arrangement for 'For You,' we kind of whipped it up over the weekend. And we really did that in one take in the studio. It came right out."
Although "For You" became an airplay favorite, it was insufficient to nudge the album onto the Billboard charts. 1978's dynamic Next of Kihn LP did manage to crack the charts at # 145, a pretty meager showing for such an aggressive and accomplished piece of rockin' pop. Nonetheless, it was one of Kihn's best albums.
Nineteen-seventy-eight, in fact, was a pretty active year for Greg Kihn's recorded output. In addition to Next of Kihn, the Greg Kihn band occupied one side of Bezerk Times, a double-album live set issued by Beserkley's German affiliate; the Rubinoos, Earth Quake, and the Tyla Gang each contributed a side as well. The Greg Kinn band also participated in the coverfest Spitballs, which Kihn described as "all the Beserkley bands playing together at the same time, hopefully in the same key on the same song." For Spitballs, Kihn recorded the Lafayettes' "Life's Too Short." ("I grew up with that song," said Kihn. "The other guys in my group all did songs. Let's see, Larry Lynch did 'Geno is a Coward.' Steve Wright did 'Over and Over,' and...oh God, I think Dave Carpender's solo was 'Telstar.' ")
Also in 1978, the Greg Kihn band released what Kihn now describes as "the most rare and collectible Greg Kihn artifact there is," an EP called The Greg Kihn Band Live. "The day after we recorded that live album [Bezerk Times] at the Audimax in Hamburg, the very next day we were to play Hammersmith Odeon in London, and the band was headlining for the first time.
"From those live sessions which were done at the Audimax, Matt Kaufman and Fred Cantrell, who was head of Beserkley of England, did up two or three songs on a white label EP. And the two or three songs, one of them was 'Future Girl,' which I don't believe is available anywhere else. [NOTE: "Future Girl" was in fact included on Bezerk Times], and a couple of other tones I don't recall. And he did it up as a white label EP and sold it the next night at the gig at Hammersmith Odeon. He sold it in the lobby. It was the only time it was ever offered for sale. I've only seen that thing once since. It's a white label. It's an LP-sized EP. In other words, it's LP-sized, but it's got two or three cuts on it. It wasn't commercially released; it was only sold that night at the gig. It was given out as a commercial thing to English radio at the time, I believe."
The next proper Greg Kihn Band album was 1979's With the Naked Eye, which featured another Springsteen cover, "Rendezvous," a tune the Boss never released. " 'Rendezvous' was one of the songs that didn't make the final cut on the Born to Run album," said Kihn. "And I got a tape from Jon Landau, which I kind of took to be one of the demos for the Born to Run album. And obviously that album was chock full of great material, he just didn't have enough room. So 'Rendezvous' was the odd man out, and I wound up getting it. The story Bruce told me was that he was either gonna give it to me or the Knack," Kihn noted with a laugh.
With the Naked Eye also included a charged-up reading of Jonathan Richman's "Roadrunner." "The version of 'Roadrunner' that's on that album was actually recorded live at a soundcheck," said Kihn. "We were playing around with recording a live album at the time, we were recording some nights at the Keystone Berkeley back here. And we recorded a couple of shows, and they didn't really amount to much and nothing became of the tapes, although I guess they exist somewhere. At the soundcheck, we did 'Roadrunner' just as a kind of a warm-up to get our levels firm, and later on we were listening to the playback and loved it, and wound up putting it on the album. It's not credited that way, but it was live."
(It's worth noting that the original working title of With the Naked Eye was Powerlines, taken from a line in "Roadrunner," and referred to by that title in several pre-release interviews with Kihn. But Emmett McAuliffe's invaluable 1990 pop discography Pop Power! listed Powerlines as a 1974 Greg Kihn album for Polydor, and described it as "the great unknown Kihn album; reward for locating!" Although there apparently is no such thing, Kihn liked the idea of a Great Lost Greg Kihn Album. "Well, you know, maybe we should leave it that way. It's more of a mystique. It's like the great lost Ed Wood movie. Suppose you found out that Ed Wood did a masterpiece and nobody knew about it?"
With the Naked Eye, the first Kihn album, released under Beserkley's new distribution deal with WEA, charted higher (#114) than Next Of Kihn, but still hardly qualified as a hit. 1980's Glass House Rock fared worse, peaking at a mere #167.
Ah, but the next album was a different story. 1981's Rockihnroll was the first of three Top 40 albums for the Greg Kihn Band, buoyed this time out by the success of the group's first hit single. "The Breakup Song (They Don't Write 'Em)."
"The Breakup Song" was a terrific single, an unforgettable AM radio-style smash that deservedly rocked its way to #15 on Billboard's Hot 100. "I think I'm proudest of that out of all the hits that we had," said Kihn. "That's still the definitive Greg Kihn band song.
'We wrote it really fast. You know, my theory of songwriting is if you don't write it in one sitting then it's not that good. All the great stuff was written all at once. And I think we wrote that in 15 minutes, and did it in one or two takes. That's the way great records are made. It's gotta start with the magic.
"That song came together in the studio. I didn't have the lyrics finished. I was just singing uh-uh's in between every other line to stretch out the lyrics that I had. And I was gonna go in there and apologize to everybody, and when it was over they were all going, "Hey, those are the deepest lyrics you've ever written, man!" Kihn recalled laughing. "And they just popped into my head! What's the message there? You know, you sit up all night writing lyrics, and the next day you come in and you're just going 'Uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh,' and that's the hook."
Although "The Breakup Song" would not remain the Greg Kinn band's biggest-ever hit, it does remain Kihn's signature tune, the track most associated with him. And Kihn and company certainly appreciated a taste of success after all the struggling. "Oh, it's spectacular man," Kihn enthused. "It was absolutely wonderful. Jeez, I was makin' money, I ran out and bought an Alfa Romeo," he said with a laugh. "It was great! I bought a house. I was a happy camper. It was really cool. Havin' a hit's one of the cool things of all time. It's a magical thing; it's like winning the Super Bowl. You can't describe it. But as a musician, it really is the bona fide Super Bowl ring. Your album's in the Top 10. It puts you in there with the Platters. It's a rare club of people."
By the time of Rockihnroll, the Greg Kihn band had added a fifth member, keyboardist Gary Phillips. That quintet reconvened for 1982's Kihntinued, which featured the great near-hit (# 62) "Happy Man," and the underrated "Testify." 1983's Kihnspiracy was the group's biggest (# 15), propelled by their massive # 2 hit, "Jeopardy."
Part of "Jeopardy"'s success can be attributed to its accompanying video, which was an MTV favorite. Kihn himself was quick to give due credit to MTV. "Oh, they put 'Jeopardy' on the map. 'Jeopardy' was one of the early concept videos that had a storyline and was actually entertaining, it had monsters in it. And at the time most MTV videos were just static concert footage, just guys singing, girls running through alleys with lingerie on. And ours was one of the early concept videos, so as a result they programmed the hell out of it. And it worked. We got a lot of airplay, it put us on the map. It made 'Jeopardy' a hit record. Of course, over the years we've evolved away in our own directions, me and MTV that is, but I gotta look back and say certainly it's a wonderful thing. I don't think 'Jeopardy' would have been as big a hit without it."
By this time, Dave Carpender had left the group, replaced on lead guitar by Greg Douglass, formerly of the Steve Miller Band. Douglass played with the group through 1984's Kihntagious and 1985's Citizen Kihn. The latter, the group's first album for EMI America (and the first since the debut to be credited to Kihn solo rather than to the Greg Kihn Band), was also Kihn's last charting album (# 51), and included his last charting song in the #30 hit "Lucky."
When Love And Rock And Roll was released in 1986, Kihn and Steve Wright were the sole remaining members of the original Greg Kihn Band. With future solo star Joe Satriani on lead guitar, Love And Rock And Roll had a somewhat heavier sound than any of its predecessors, and the title track was a fairly convincing would-be anthem. Few heard it, however, as the album failed the chart and died an ignominious death at retail.
Love And Rock And Roll was also Kihn's last album for EMI. Satriani split, and was replaced by Jimmy Lyon, a veteran of Eddie Money's band. In 1989, Rhino released a Kihn best-of set called Kihnsolidation, plus a new live set, Unkihntrollable. Unkihntrollable, though perhaps not quite the equal of the Bezerk Times tracks, nonetheless showcased a rock-solid band still confident in its own power and prowess.
In 1982, the Greg Kihn Band credit was reactivated for Kihn of Hearts, a new album on the independent Riot label. In 1994, Mutiny brought Kihn's return to folk.
Kihn explained the genesis of Mutiny: "So this album, I went back to Baltimore. Jack Heyrman, who is one of my oldest friends going all the way back to high school--he used to book me, and he managed me in those days that I was playing coffeehouses--he had just built a state-of-the-art studio in Baltimore, and he said, 'Why don't you come back and let's do the acoustic album you've always wanted to do'."
Kihn readily acknowledged Mutiny as a legitimate return to his folk beginnings. "A lot of the songs that are on Mutiny are songs that I learned during that period of my life," said Kihn, "like 'Guavi Guavi' and 'Joshua Gone Barbados.' I learned it from the Tom Rush recording. And it's not a line--it really is a return to my youth. And it's funny, I really think it is my best album. It's really different."
At this point in his career, Kihn is able to have things both ways. In June of 1995, he was scheduled to begin recording a follow-up to Mutiny, while at the same time considering the possibility of another Greg Kihn Band album. Kihn plays out live in both incarnations, as a solo acoustic act and as the frontman of his full band. As of the spring of 1995, Jimmy Lyon had left the band and Greg Douglass had returned for some shows. There was also a reunion show with Dave Carpender in April 1995.
(Steve Wright, of course, has remained with Kihn throughout the years. Although Wright only played on one track on the acoustic Mutiny, his appearance there means he hasn't missed a Kihn album yet.)
Kihn has also expanded his creative efforts beyond the music field. "I got a book deal," Kihn said happily. "I'm a published author now. Horror Show is the first novel. It comes out in the spring of '96. It's on Tor Books. I'm really looking forward to the release of that. That kind of puts me on the map with Kinky Friedman and Jimmy Buffett. And it's a small map, you know."
And what genre does Mr. Nice Guy Popstar choose to work within, anyway? "Horror fiction and just dark fiction," Kihn replied. "I guess that's technically known as fantasy. But it would be in the [style of] Stephen King, Dean Koontz, Robert McHammond, and my favorite, Dan Simmons. I think Dan Simmons is the guy I really think is the best guy working in the genre right now."
Of course, a fascination with horror fiction is very common, and Kihn's love for the genre stretches back to his childhood. "When I was like 13," Kinn recalled, "I had this album by the Ivy League Trio. It was a folk album, and it was called The Songs of Edgar Allan Poe. And it was little songs, little folk kind of Kingston Trio style songs of Edgar Allan Poe stories," he said laughing. "Isn't that weird? And when I first got the album, I loved it. I don't remember anything about it except that when I was about 14 or 15, I loved it. And it got me reading Edgar Allan Poe. And then H.P. Lovecraft. Back in those days, I used to read Famous Monsters Of Filmland magazine religiously. So it was only natural that when I turned to literature, I'd be a little dark. But it's all fun stuff, it's fun to read. I would just like to write things that I would like to read."
Kihn is also working on a CD-ROM retrospective of his career to date. "It's an interactive CD-ROM," Kihn explained, "and it's being done by a new company out here in San Francisco called Spin Interactive, headed up by a lady named Irene Grass. And Irene had this vision of doing a Greg Kihn CD-ROM. We kind of looked at the other CD-ROMs in the field, and they were all pretty lacking. I thought they were not that good. And I thought gee, a lot more could be done in this new genre, and it just seemed like something cool to do.
"So I got all the best young programmers and artists working on this in San Francisco. And it's a gas. Plus, I have a lot of junk, I got a big closet full of stuff in my life. You know, it's a retrospective, there's old stuff, there's new stuff, all the old videos are on it for instance, and old press clippings. Plus some of my literary writings are in there, and interview footage, you know, that kind of stuff. It's pretty complete. It's multi-media. It's interesting stuff--if you're a Greg Kihn fan, you'll be in heaven. Everybody else will probably leave the room."
And completing Kihn's Renaissance Man role, he's also hosting his own radio show. "I'm doing a radio show of classic rock, on KFOX in San Jose," said Kihn. "And it's a lot of fun. I play Stones, the Who, you know, all your favorite stuff. It's a nice thing to do. I've done so much radio over the years. And lately, I guess because I'm maturing, but I'm traveling a little bit less than I used to. It's kind of nice to have a gig to do. And I really enjoy doing it. I've done so much radio over the years I just kinda grew to love it. And when KFOX offered it as a kind of experiment--'come on down and see how you like it'--it turned into a gig. I just basically do that unless I'm on the road. Plus I write all day. I write all day, play records all night, and travel on the weekends," he concluded with a laugh. "Yee-ha!"
So to paraphrase Joni Mitchell, Greg Kihn's looked at pop stardom from both sides now, and he appears to have remained level-headed and retained his perspective. "Ten years ago, I was a rock star," said Kihn, "with a # 1 record, [NOTE: # 2, actually--damn, that Michael Jackson and his "Beat It!."], and just cruisin' through life with a model wife, drivin' a sports car.
"Now here it is, 10 years later. I'm not a rock star. I'm Greg Kihn. You know, Greg Kihn transcends rock star," Kihn claimed, laughing. "I mean, it's not like I'm trying to be anything. You know, me playing the role of a rock star was just not me. If you give me a million bucks, I'd still wear a T-shirt and jeans, I'd still drive a crappy car. I'm just that kind of guy. I still go to the used bookstore, for Christ's sake, even though I could afford new books. I like finding old '50s paperbacks of Harlan Ellison and stuff. I got a couple of bookstores out here in San Francisco I go to that specialize in the good stuff, the stuff you're not going to find at Waldenbooks. There's a great literary tradition out here in San Francisco, from the Beats on. And it's really interesting when you walk down the streets of North Beach and it's raining, and you get that Jack Kerouac kind of feel."
Ultimately, it's clear that Kihn has held on to the sheer enthusiasm and elusive sense of wonder that lies at the heart of the greatest rock, pop, and soul. "When I'm an old man," said Kihn, "and I tell my grandchildren that I was a rock and roll star in the '70s and '80s in California--you know, it's a magical thing. And it'd be like being a big band leader during the Goodman era, or being a rockabilly cat in Memphis in the '50s. I mean, it's just a magical time. I never get over it, that I was in the right place at the right time, and it's just a great thing. And when I look back on all this shit," Kihn said with one more laugh, "It just seems so cool."
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